I'm really surprised. Something really eye-opening happened. It started when a guy named Jimmy 4chan, an RvB alt was called "mate". He wrongfully believed that it means "faggot". He demanded it to stop but it didn't. He did not accept explanation that "mate" actually means friend. He was kicked over the drama. OK, someone was being drunk or totally retarded in a casual EVE group. We saw such trade chat "dramas" in WoW and on unmoderated forums too. Trolls and idiots over the internet isn't something new. Move along, there is nothing to see here.
Except he wasn't a random kid spamming trade while standing in Stormwind as an ungemmed spirit-cloth geared warrior. He was one of the leaders of the EVE alliance called Northern Coalition. So Northern Coalition declared war on RvB, which is a newbie-teaching group. I opened up the EVE info and checked NC. They contain the following corporations and members
I can't imagine even a semi-decent WoW guild to do anything like that. Sure the guilds whose primary activity is obstructing postboxes via mammoths and dancing naked in the fountain do such things, but any guild which had just a few first bosses killed or 1600 MMR would have booted him long ago for idiocy instead of placing him to one of the top positions. Also, how could the worst scammer ever become a diplomat in the largest sov-holding alliance in EVE? I mean we are talking about the elite of the elite here, the EVE-versions of Method, Paragon, Stars and we find competence and behavior that would make even the infamous Tractor Inc Farmin NOOBS look bad.
Grown up in WoW I had some expectations about "hardcore". We all have. "Be properly gemmed, know the fights, have X ilvl, hold N/week attendance, no trashtalk" is expected even in "junior league" WoW guilds, the ones between World top 30000-10000. My guild, The PuG was special exactly for being in this range without these, expecting only non-idiotic behavior. The type of professionalism that is considered common sense in even among mediocre WoW guilds seems to be totally missing in the EVE "hardcore".
WoW "professionalism" did not appear from the nothing. It was formed in competition. If you stuck to "friendship" and "having fun", tolerated incompetent or outright childish members, you practically locked out yourself of progression. The guild culture evolved along the progression competitions, the standards of better guilds were adopted by lesser guilds to catch up. Talenting after EJ became so obvious even among beginner guilds that Blizzard removed the whole talent system as redundant.
I'm completely sure that an alliance made of hardcore players who approach EVE sov-warfare with the same attitude as a hard mode WoW guild could easily conquer the whole nullsec or could only be stopped by another formed on the same ideas. The existence of just one WoW-HC-like alliance in EVE would guarantee the total cleansing of sov-null and WH from the "for fun" lolalliances. Why did not a single one formed?
I believe it's the product of the upside-down design of EVE, where the beginner zones are the most profitable. In WoW, if you want to get the best gear of the season, you must belong to the raiding or PvP elite. In EVE if you want the best ships and modules, you don't have to undock from Jita. In WoW the competitive players are motivated to form "no bullshit" professional guilds for the common goal, in EVE the same players play alone. Let's not be naive: most WoW players play for gear and achievements. If these could be gained by fishing at Stonebull Lake, they would do that and no one would raid, just like no one raids Black Temple with lvl 70 locked characters. Players go where the rewards are, fields with no rewards like Arathi Basin normal and EVE sov-null soon be filled only with "i pwnd him lol" idiots and "freindly heplfull peepz". The WoW raider does all the effort and tolerates non-friendly members because he is rewarded individually by gear drops and achievements. In EVE there are no achievements and all gear are available in highsec/lowsec.
I'm starting to see that EVE is a commercial success because it's the most casual-friendly game, but with the space setting and the "dark and unforgiving" lore. Hardcore players are better off playing WoW. To disprove me you shall do two things:
Thursday morning report: 125.4B (2.5B spent on main accounts, 1.9 spent on Logi/Carrier, 1.5 on Ragnarok, 1.1 on Rorqual, 1.4 on Nyx, 1.3 on Avatar, 2.6B received as gift).
Except he wasn't a random kid spamming trade while standing in Stormwind as an ungemmed spirit-cloth geared warrior. He was one of the leaders of the EVE alliance called Northern Coalition. So Northern Coalition declared war on RvB, which is a newbie-teaching group. I opened up the EVE info and checked NC. They contain the following corporations and members
- Erasers INC: 59
- Burning napalm: 149
- Van Diemien's demise: 85
- The Ankou: 152
- Missions, mining and mayhem: 109
- Best friends forever: 7
- Ever flow: 83
- Destructive influence: 175
- Enterprise Estonia: 90
- Burn Eden:95
- Rionnag Alba: 134
- D00M.: 137
- Total Mayhem.: 77
- Invictus Australis: 147
- 0utlaw: 71
- Muppet factory: 91
I can't imagine even a semi-decent WoW guild to do anything like that. Sure the guilds whose primary activity is obstructing postboxes via mammoths and dancing naked in the fountain do such things, but any guild which had just a few first bosses killed or 1600 MMR would have booted him long ago for idiocy instead of placing him to one of the top positions. Also, how could the worst scammer ever become a diplomat in the largest sov-holding alliance in EVE? I mean we are talking about the elite of the elite here, the EVE-versions of Method, Paragon, Stars and we find competence and behavior that would make even the infamous Tractor Inc Farmin NOOBS look bad.
Grown up in WoW I had some expectations about "hardcore". We all have. "Be properly gemmed, know the fights, have X ilvl, hold N/week attendance, no trashtalk" is expected even in "junior league" WoW guilds, the ones between World top 30000-10000. My guild, The PuG was special exactly for being in this range without these, expecting only non-idiotic behavior. The type of professionalism that is considered common sense in even among mediocre WoW guilds seems to be totally missing in the EVE "hardcore".
WoW "professionalism" did not appear from the nothing. It was formed in competition. If you stuck to "friendship" and "having fun", tolerated incompetent or outright childish members, you practically locked out yourself of progression. The guild culture evolved along the progression competitions, the standards of better guilds were adopted by lesser guilds to catch up. Talenting after EJ became so obvious even among beginner guilds that Blizzard removed the whole talent system as redundant.
I'm completely sure that an alliance made of hardcore players who approach EVE sov-warfare with the same attitude as a hard mode WoW guild could easily conquer the whole nullsec or could only be stopped by another formed on the same ideas. The existence of just one WoW-HC-like alliance in EVE would guarantee the total cleansing of sov-null and WH from the "for fun" lolalliances. Why did not a single one formed?
I believe it's the product of the upside-down design of EVE, where the beginner zones are the most profitable. In WoW, if you want to get the best gear of the season, you must belong to the raiding or PvP elite. In EVE if you want the best ships and modules, you don't have to undock from Jita. In WoW the competitive players are motivated to form "no bullshit" professional guilds for the common goal, in EVE the same players play alone. Let's not be naive: most WoW players play for gear and achievements. If these could be gained by fishing at Stonebull Lake, they would do that and no one would raid, just like no one raids Black Temple with lvl 70 locked characters. Players go where the rewards are, fields with no rewards like Arathi Basin normal and EVE sov-null soon be filled only with "i pwnd him lol" idiots and "freindly heplfull peepz". The WoW raider does all the effort and tolerates non-friendly members because he is rewarded individually by gear drops and achievements. In EVE there are no achievements and all gear are available in highsec/lowsec.
I'm starting to see that EVE is a commercial success because it's the most casual-friendly game, but with the space setting and the "dark and unforgiving" lore. Hardcore players are better off playing WoW. To disprove me you shall do two things:
- Somehow explain how could those heap of idiots called NCDOT hold sov, strike that how come they are not station-camped by 10-men "pirate" corps.
- Show me just one sov-holding alliance where the recruitment criteria is player skill (measured in any way) and/or effort (time or ISK contributed). Please note that "lifetime kills" and "Skill points" do not suffice since they just show seniority and both can be gained on the character bazaar. Kills/month, or focusing SP according to a doctrine ship are of course an acceptable measures.
Thursday morning report: 125.4B (2.5B spent on main accounts, 1.9 spent on Logi/Carrier, 1.5 on Ragnarok, 1.1 on Rorqual, 1.4 on Nyx, 1.3 on Avatar, 2.6B received as gift).
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