As I wrote, I consider industry and trade, generating wealth a crucial backbone of an alliance after the Tech nerf. I also wrote that I find it a must for me joining. I wouldn't feel home in an alliance which runs with the idea "We are PvP-ers" or even "We are PvP-ers, but industrialists with teeth are accepted". I'm sure that an alliance with a properly ran industrial branch would be able to field much stronger ships (like BS+carrier slow fleet and Tengu-Scimi fast) and they could reimburse them too, not to mention capital/supercapital fleets.
I don't think that alliance directors are idiots who don't know that. However there isn't a single successful implementation of an industry branch. I proposed some, they were all failures. Taxing or licensing PvE doesn't/wouldn't work because most nullsec people hate PvE and won't do it. Those who like it are either fine in highsec or welcomed for free. No alliance can demand payment in any form because the result would be simply zero PvE or leaving.
I tried to build up the industrial branch using economic ideas, neglecting the fact that EVE is a game for fun where players cannot be forced to log in. Real world economic laws work on the axiom that without money you starve and you don't want to starve. However this doesn't need to lead to nihilism "everyone just do random fun, nothing can be done". The alliances have serious PvP fleets despite pressing F1 and doing 1% damage on the targets is rarely considered fun.
I considered nullsec alliance membership fully altruistic since it provides no wealth or even good kill:death ratio, highsec and lowsec for these is much better. The alliances can make PvP-ers donate time to the alliance. If I can figure out how they do it, I can finally transform it to industry and have the recipe of the working industrial branch. In a sov-holder alliance you can simply stay logged out during CTAs (call to arms) or show up in a Rifter (which is about as good as logged out) and no one blames you. You can have all the membership benefits without donating time, yet most members donate their time.
You might say that "socials are social and give gifts to their friends", but they could donate ISK to the alliance wallet too, and they don't. When I sent 2.6B to Evemonkey to support their battle against MateDot he sent it back a few days later. He simply couldn't find anyone who knew how to deposite money to the proper wallet as no one ever tried to donate money before. Spare me from the "people donate PvP time but not PvE because PvP is fun" comments. Most players live in highsec where PvP is very limited and they still don't quit. So we can be sure that PvE/industry/trading is fun for big part of players.
The solution for players donating time is not altruism. They receive something in return, even if that's just something social. What can it be? I was browsing alliance webpages and it hit me: the front page is often the killboard. Now, there are some alliances that care for their kill:death ratio, but killboards are on a central position even for alliances that openly state that they don't care about losses. What is going on here?
The alliances might not care about kill:death, but they do care about kills. Having a higher kill count means more time donation to the alliance as in a large-fleet action kill count is mostly unaffected by individual skills. If you fly more battles, you get more kills. Having more kills is a source of pride and respect. The group celebrates the member who donated much. Competitive ones want respect. They are in the race with others "who can donate more to the group". Controlled competition: the core element of my permanent page. The alliance leaders created a race where members can excel by being useful for the alliance: donating more PvP effort.
From this point the PvE version is straightforward. Just as PvP time creates kills, PvE time creates ISK. All the alliance need to create is a "donation board" next to its killboard and an API reading script that checks the proper wallet or donation collecting char. This way PvE players could compete too with each other, in a race that is clearly beneficial to the group. Since they were donating to the group, they would no longer be outsiders but respected members. As a bonus this system would make taxing obsolete. There would be no need to create fees that distort the market and drive people into less profitable, but less taxed activities. They could do as they please since the profit would be donated to the alliance anyway, as this would be the way to compete with others on their field. Also this scheme needs no special corp or rights or licenses or any other administration besides the API check. The participating members wouldn't be separated or differentiated in any way from those who contribute by PvP.
Killboards are public, so the competition goes between not just players of the alliance but between alliances too: "we killed more than you". Similarly industry-boards should be public to allow similar competition: "we gathered bigger wallet than you".
What do you think? Would this idea finally bring serious industry and PvE to sov-null? It worked in the real life:
Tuesday morning report: 148.5B Some more items liquidated. No more liquidation until late September. (3.5 spent on main accounts, 2.4 spent on Logi/Carrier, 2.2 on Ragnarok, 1.6 on Rorqual, 1.4 on Nyx, 1.8 on Avatar, 2.6 received as gift)
I don't think that alliance directors are idiots who don't know that. However there isn't a single successful implementation of an industry branch. I proposed some, they were all failures. Taxing or licensing PvE doesn't/wouldn't work because most nullsec people hate PvE and won't do it. Those who like it are either fine in highsec or welcomed for free. No alliance can demand payment in any form because the result would be simply zero PvE or leaving.
I tried to build up the industrial branch using economic ideas, neglecting the fact that EVE is a game for fun where players cannot be forced to log in. Real world economic laws work on the axiom that without money you starve and you don't want to starve. However this doesn't need to lead to nihilism "everyone just do random fun, nothing can be done". The alliances have serious PvP fleets despite pressing F1 and doing 1% damage on the targets is rarely considered fun.
I considered nullsec alliance membership fully altruistic since it provides no wealth or even good kill:death ratio, highsec and lowsec for these is much better. The alliances can make PvP-ers donate time to the alliance. If I can figure out how they do it, I can finally transform it to industry and have the recipe of the working industrial branch. In a sov-holder alliance you can simply stay logged out during CTAs (call to arms) or show up in a Rifter (which is about as good as logged out) and no one blames you. You can have all the membership benefits without donating time, yet most members donate their time.
You might say that "socials are social and give gifts to their friends", but they could donate ISK to the alliance wallet too, and they don't. When I sent 2.6B to Evemonkey to support their battle against MateDot he sent it back a few days later. He simply couldn't find anyone who knew how to deposite money to the proper wallet as no one ever tried to donate money before. Spare me from the "people donate PvP time but not PvE because PvP is fun" comments. Most players live in highsec where PvP is very limited and they still don't quit. So we can be sure that PvE/industry/trading is fun for big part of players.
The solution for players donating time is not altruism. They receive something in return, even if that's just something social. What can it be? I was browsing alliance webpages and it hit me: the front page is often the killboard. Now, there are some alliances that care for their kill:death ratio, but killboards are on a central position even for alliances that openly state that they don't care about losses. What is going on here?
The alliances might not care about kill:death, but they do care about kills. Having a higher kill count means more time donation to the alliance as in a large-fleet action kill count is mostly unaffected by individual skills. If you fly more battles, you get more kills. Having more kills is a source of pride and respect. The group celebrates the member who donated much. Competitive ones want respect. They are in the race with others "who can donate more to the group". Controlled competition: the core element of my permanent page. The alliance leaders created a race where members can excel by being useful for the alliance: donating more PvP effort.
From this point the PvE version is straightforward. Just as PvP time creates kills, PvE time creates ISK. All the alliance need to create is a "donation board" next to its killboard and an API reading script that checks the proper wallet or donation collecting char. This way PvE players could compete too with each other, in a race that is clearly beneficial to the group. Since they were donating to the group, they would no longer be outsiders but respected members. As a bonus this system would make taxing obsolete. There would be no need to create fees that distort the market and drive people into less profitable, but less taxed activities. They could do as they please since the profit would be donated to the alliance anyway, as this would be the way to compete with others on their field. Also this scheme needs no special corp or rights or licenses or any other administration besides the API check. The participating members wouldn't be separated or differentiated in any way from those who contribute by PvP.
Killboards are public, so the competition goes between not just players of the alliance but between alliances too: "we killed more than you". Similarly industry-boards should be public to allow similar competition: "we gathered bigger wallet than you".
What do you think? Would this idea finally bring serious industry and PvE to sov-null? It worked in the real life:
Tuesday morning report: 148.5B Some more items liquidated. No more liquidation until late September. (3.5 spent on main accounts, 2.4 spent on Logi/Carrier, 2.2 on Ragnarok, 1.6 on Rorqual, 1.4 on Nyx, 1.8 on Avatar, 2.6 received as gift)
0 comments:
Post a Comment