PvP-ers agree that there is no “skill” in ganking miners. However there is a problem: there is no skill in other forms of EVE PvP either (except for Alliance Tournaments). No, it’s not my opinion. It’s the opinion of everyone. I mean, there wasn’t a single PvP engagement in the ten years of EVE Online where the defeated side said “you were better, congratulations!” They always say “blobbing”, “outshipping”, “baiting”, “awox” or other form of unfair fight. There isn’t anyone in EVE who ever acknowledged the skill of the one who defeated him (again, outside of AT).
Seriously, is there anyone who says that CFC won 6VDT because the individual pilots were more skilled? Not even CFC does that. Or the PL supers with the Revenant were massacred because the BL pilots were outclassing them in piloting their dreads? No, even BL accepts that it was due to the awox of the PL FC. Is there any skill in assigning drones and going AFK?
PvP games, both on the computer (like League of Legends) and offline (like boxing) have a very strict ruleset that always determine the equal number of opponents, equal resources and playfield. They all limit the weapons/moves available (if you kick, or even if the weight of your gloves is a few grams off, you can’t box). Deviation from these rules leads to immediate bans/disqualifications. Only by these very strict rules can you guarantee that the outcome depends only on player skill.
Because of lack of these rules, the engagements in EVE are always ganks. An all-seeing GM can perfectly tell who will win the engagement before it happens. What you do in the engagement might affect the exact kill:death ratio, but victory or defeat is decided before the first shot. On the other hand no one can tell who will win the next AT, exactly because the conditions are equal and the player skill will decide the outcome.
The “PvP-ers” who look down on the “gankers” are self-deceiving liars. Their slogan “try shooting something that can shoot back” is a joke, since the PL supers with the Revenant are something that usually preys on capitals. But on that engagement they were baited at a hostile POS with their hard counter under the command of an awoxer. The TEST fleet in 6VDT was probably one of the strongest fleets EVE has ever seen. Yet they had zero chance to win because all POS-es were in CFC hands and CFC was on grid first. While both examples were considered very strong in general, in those circumstances they didn’t have more chance to win than a mining barge.
Of course setting up the trap for PL or the moon control for 6VDT weren’t random acts. They were planned by someone and this someone displayed skill. However this guy is an FC/mildir guy and not a pilot. He probably wasn’t even on grid. Claiming that there is no skill in EVE would be a joke. But this is a skill of generals, planners, politicians. But how is a gank-planner different from them? He found a weaker enemy, designed a hard-counter doctrine and trained pilots to do the footwork.
In EVE there is no such thing as “PvP skill”. No one acknowledges your skill (besides your blues) and it’s easy to prove that any engagements were decided by other factors (numbers, ship types, trap). The point isn’t that a “real PvP” pilot isn’t more skilled than me. The point is that he isn’t more skilled than the miner I gank. Or the rats the miner shoots. After all the “lock up hostile, activate guns” is exactly what the belt rat, the BL dread pilot or the CFC mega pilot does.
Of course people say that there is skill in hidden places like certain wormholes and lowsec parts where "good fights" can be found. The problem with this is indeed its hidden nature. If I'd go down to lowsec and kill ships, would that mean I found these hidden good fights and won, proving my skill? Or would it just mean that I was lucky and caught some noobs who were farming sec status tags? In lack of tournament or even a commonly accepted place for these "skill fights", no one can verify or falsify the claim that by winning a certain PvP engagement one displayed this mythical skill.
The other common claim is "awesome PvP videos". The problem with them is repeatability. There are several videos where some newbie golf player hit the ball into the hole from the first hit. Does it mean that they are awesome golf players? No, it was pure luck. If you sit a monkey down before EVE and wait enough time, he will make you an awesome PvP video. Of course in 99.99% of the time it loses. But what do we know about the win-loss-retreat ratio of Rooks and Kings or Rote Kapelle? Nothing. We only see the engagements when they made something awesome.
In absence of strict PvP rules, EVE isn’t a skill game. EVE is a strategy game. Anyone claiming to have “skill” demonstrates that he has no skill in the strategy part that matters.
The anti tear of today was provided by the audience in the local channel:
Seriously, is there anyone who says that CFC won 6VDT because the individual pilots were more skilled? Not even CFC does that. Or the PL supers with the Revenant were massacred because the BL pilots were outclassing them in piloting their dreads? No, even BL accepts that it was due to the awox of the PL FC. Is there any skill in assigning drones and going AFK?
PvP games, both on the computer (like League of Legends) and offline (like boxing) have a very strict ruleset that always determine the equal number of opponents, equal resources and playfield. They all limit the weapons/moves available (if you kick, or even if the weight of your gloves is a few grams off, you can’t box). Deviation from these rules leads to immediate bans/disqualifications. Only by these very strict rules can you guarantee that the outcome depends only on player skill.
Because of lack of these rules, the engagements in EVE are always ganks. An all-seeing GM can perfectly tell who will win the engagement before it happens. What you do in the engagement might affect the exact kill:death ratio, but victory or defeat is decided before the first shot. On the other hand no one can tell who will win the next AT, exactly because the conditions are equal and the player skill will decide the outcome.
The “PvP-ers” who look down on the “gankers” are self-deceiving liars. Their slogan “try shooting something that can shoot back” is a joke, since the PL supers with the Revenant are something that usually preys on capitals. But on that engagement they were baited at a hostile POS with their hard counter under the command of an awoxer. The TEST fleet in 6VDT was probably one of the strongest fleets EVE has ever seen. Yet they had zero chance to win because all POS-es were in CFC hands and CFC was on grid first. While both examples were considered very strong in general, in those circumstances they didn’t have more chance to win than a mining barge.
Of course setting up the trap for PL or the moon control for 6VDT weren’t random acts. They were planned by someone and this someone displayed skill. However this guy is an FC/mildir guy and not a pilot. He probably wasn’t even on grid. Claiming that there is no skill in EVE would be a joke. But this is a skill of generals, planners, politicians. But how is a gank-planner different from them? He found a weaker enemy, designed a hard-counter doctrine and trained pilots to do the footwork.
In EVE there is no such thing as “PvP skill”. No one acknowledges your skill (besides your blues) and it’s easy to prove that any engagements were decided by other factors (numbers, ship types, trap). The point isn’t that a “real PvP” pilot isn’t more skilled than me. The point is that he isn’t more skilled than the miner I gank. Or the rats the miner shoots. After all the “lock up hostile, activate guns” is exactly what the belt rat, the BL dread pilot or the CFC mega pilot does.
Of course people say that there is skill in hidden places like certain wormholes and lowsec parts where "good fights" can be found. The problem with this is indeed its hidden nature. If I'd go down to lowsec and kill ships, would that mean I found these hidden good fights and won, proving my skill? Or would it just mean that I was lucky and caught some noobs who were farming sec status tags? In lack of tournament or even a commonly accepted place for these "skill fights", no one can verify or falsify the claim that by winning a certain PvP engagement one displayed this mythical skill.
The other common claim is "awesome PvP videos". The problem with them is repeatability. There are several videos where some newbie golf player hit the ball into the hole from the first hit. Does it mean that they are awesome golf players? No, it was pure luck. If you sit a monkey down before EVE and wait enough time, he will make you an awesome PvP video. Of course in 99.99% of the time it loses. But what do we know about the win-loss-retreat ratio of Rooks and Kings or Rote Kapelle? Nothing. We only see the engagements when they made something awesome.
In absence of strict PvP rules, EVE isn’t a skill game. EVE is a strategy game. Anyone claiming to have “skill” demonstrates that he has no skill in the strategy part that matters.
The anti tear of today was provided by the audience in the local channel:
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