The New Order is pretty much an altruistic roleplaying PvP organization. Definitely not the kind of place where a selfish industrialist would place himself. Even if it succeeds it provides no profit for the participants, the only beneficiaries are the active miners. A selfish, objectivist individual would only care for his own good and the New Order provides me nothing. Yet I see it a crucial part of "winning EVE" and I suggest every business- and winning-oriented players to join. Why?
Theoretically EVE is not a WoW clone. In WoW if you play totally incompetently, do whatever you desire in the moment, ignore planning and thinking, you still get every possible in-game rewards. "Failure" is not defined in WoW, even a literally AFK/autofollow player can complete raids and you can gain every item for justice/honor points next patch. WoW is the ideal socialism where the "government" (The Horde and Alliance NPCs) shower everyone with everything regardless effort or merit. In such environment making effort or gaining skill is wasting time. I left it for EVE in hope for a competitive environment.
Theoretically failure in EVE has consequences: you lose your ship and maybe even impants (skillpoint gain). In this environment only the strong survives. This idea fuels the ego of the EVE players who consider themselves soooo much better than WoW players. However what I found is lolling, random Arathi-basin bridge like PvP, horribly incompetent players (I'm sure you can find less spirit geared warriors in WoW than ships with unbonused guns in EVE). I gained the price of a titan as a few months old newbie. I had 10% of the income of 10000 men alliances. I was in WoW again, with racism and porn in the chat. Wonderful.
The only real resource in a video game is time. If you lose a ship, you must spend time re-grind it. To manufacture a Rokh, you need about 15M units of minerals. That's about 500K m3 ore. An OK exhumer takes about 17003/minute. So if you lose your Rokh, you have to watch mining cycles and move ore from your hold to the Orca or Jetcan for 5 hours. Add fittings and you are close to 7-8 hours of farming to get that lost Rokh back. That's pretty harsh, right? Losing a cruiser means an hour of boring farming. EVE is harsh, forcing players to do boring grind as punishment for a single mistake that lead to the loss of the ship. Obviously you don't have to build the ship yourself, there is a market, but you have to provide some service to the ones who build it. Assuming everyone farms with the same ISK/hour (which is true by definition for the average player), you must farm an hour for your cruiser and 7-8 for a battleship. Soon the bad players will be out of ships, right?
Wrong, because you don't have to spend time farming. Your computer has to, while you are AFK. The minerals and ice products are practically free of time investment as they are gathered without player interaction, either via a bot or simply by AFK farming. Mining ores is 2-2.5x more profitable than mining ice. Still people mine ice, because that is easier AFK.
The problem:
So, despite I'm fully aware of its weirdness, I joined and fully support a funny roleplay-religious altruist group and I suggest you do the same unless you want to watch the same guys who fought in the Arathi Bridge lol around in spaceships forever. Every AFK/bot you take out is a bunch of ore that a lolkid will have to farm himself.
So you were right, I joined the New Order to grief. But not the mining bots (can you grief a bot?), nor the AFK miners (who can avoid being griefed by not being AFK) but the mineral users. I want to drive up mineral/ice prices so losing a ship would mean "omg I now have to farm hours" instead of "gf lol". I want their tears!
PS: to put some numbers behind these: an average, casual highsec missioner in an OK-ish mission boat can take 40M/hour. If mining is forced to be active, it will reach the same ISK/hour. A similarly casual miner (T2 crystal, T2 strip miner Mackinaw, redocking, no other boost than himself having a Mining Foreman 4 skill) can earn 1300m3/minute veldspar. With spending 4 minutes/hour redocking, and +5% from "elite" veldspar, it's 76400m3/hour. 1m3 veldspar yields 30 units of tritanium. So 2.29M trit should be 40M IS, so one trit should be 17.4 IS. 3x higher than today. If we clear out AFK mining from highsec, all ship costs can be increased 3x higher. That would be impact!
Theoretically EVE is not a WoW clone. In WoW if you play totally incompetently, do whatever you desire in the moment, ignore planning and thinking, you still get every possible in-game rewards. "Failure" is not defined in WoW, even a literally AFK/autofollow player can complete raids and you can gain every item for justice/honor points next patch. WoW is the ideal socialism where the "government" (The Horde and Alliance NPCs) shower everyone with everything regardless effort or merit. In such environment making effort or gaining skill is wasting time. I left it for EVE in hope for a competitive environment.
Theoretically failure in EVE has consequences: you lose your ship and maybe even impants (skillpoint gain). In this environment only the strong survives. This idea fuels the ego of the EVE players who consider themselves soooo much better than WoW players. However what I found is lolling, random Arathi-basin bridge like PvP, horribly incompetent players (I'm sure you can find less spirit geared warriors in WoW than ships with unbonused guns in EVE). I gained the price of a titan as a few months old newbie. I had 10% of the income of 10000 men alliances. I was in WoW again, with racism and porn in the chat. Wonderful.
The only real resource in a video game is time. If you lose a ship, you must spend time re-grind it. To manufacture a Rokh, you need about 15M units of minerals. That's about 500K m3 ore. An OK exhumer takes about 17003/minute. So if you lose your Rokh, you have to watch mining cycles and move ore from your hold to the Orca or Jetcan for 5 hours. Add fittings and you are close to 7-8 hours of farming to get that lost Rokh back. That's pretty harsh, right? Losing a cruiser means an hour of boring farming. EVE is harsh, forcing players to do boring grind as punishment for a single mistake that lead to the loss of the ship. Obviously you don't have to build the ship yourself, there is a market, but you have to provide some service to the ones who build it. Assuming everyone farms with the same ISK/hour (which is true by definition for the average player), you must farm an hour for your cruiser and 7-8 for a battleship. Soon the bad players will be out of ships, right?
Wrong, because you don't have to spend time farming. Your computer has to, while you are AFK. The minerals and ice products are practically free of time investment as they are gathered without player interaction, either via a bot or simply by AFK farming. Mining ores is 2-2.5x more profitable than mining ice. Still people mine ice, because that is easier AFK.
The problem:
- AFKers and bots generate lot of minerals/ice
- Minerals and ice products are cheap
- As they are the basic level of manufacturing, everything is cheap
- So it's cheap to replace losses
- So losses don't hurt
- So playing bad and generally being dumb, drunk or irrational has no more consequences than in WoW: frustrating other people who wanted to win
So, despite I'm fully aware of its weirdness, I joined and fully support a funny roleplay-religious altruist group and I suggest you do the same unless you want to watch the same guys who fought in the Arathi Bridge lol around in spaceships forever. Every AFK/bot you take out is a bunch of ore that a lolkid will have to farm himself.
So you were right, I joined the New Order to grief. But not the mining bots (can you grief a bot?), nor the AFK miners (who can avoid being griefed by not being AFK) but the mineral users. I want to drive up mineral/ice prices so losing a ship would mean "omg I now have to farm hours" instead of "gf lol". I want their tears!
PS: to put some numbers behind these: an average, casual highsec missioner in an OK-ish mission boat can take 40M/hour. If mining is forced to be active, it will reach the same ISK/hour. A similarly casual miner (T2 crystal, T2 strip miner Mackinaw, redocking, no other boost than himself having a Mining Foreman 4 skill) can earn 1300m3/minute veldspar. With spending 4 minutes/hour redocking, and +5% from "elite" veldspar, it's 76400m3/hour. 1m3 veldspar yields 30 units of tritanium. So 2.29M trit should be 40M IS, so one trit should be 17.4 IS. 3x higher than today. If we clear out AFK mining from highsec, all ship costs can be increased 3x higher. That would be impact!
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